This is Mike's question:
What's wrong with kids today? Why is education sucking when so many teachers are trying so hard? Where do kids get this sense of entitlement and how do parents and society fix it?
Let's hear it people!
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17 comments:
THEY NEED JESUS.
Mike - Great question! First, I think we need to define the end goal of education. I know this is a loaded question, but before we begin debating �why education sucks� we need to agree on the end goal. Because if we (whoever is interested in this question) disagree on the end goal then the why will be relative to my opinion. I�m not sure I was able to articulate what I meant�but hopefully that made sense.
For those of you who don't feel equipped to discuss the ins and outs of education, don't answer the questions in that context, but in the context of changing behavior, moral decay, or personal experience.
We all have something to offer in the way of kids. To me it's a chicken or the egg question. JT makes a great point, as usual, and I'm guessing by the tone of the question and the previous discussions on this forum that we are headed towards the "life" skills needed to survive in the type of world we live in today. For instance, for this particular conversation, a heavier dose of moral stability, emotional delivery, and authentic contribution to society is the context of the forum. If that is not what Mike meant to ask, then I'll defer to him and his explanation of his own question.
I will throw out two things that I think play a huge part. First, parenting is an issue, and its not necessarily lack of parental involvement. There are of course those parents who are pretty much absent. Physically, there are parents who have abandoned their kids (lack of father's in the home), but also emotionally/spiritually absent. There are plenty of parents that think they are doing the best for their kids (I want to give them what I didn't have) so they work incredibly hard to provide a big house, an awesome first car, all the private lessons the kid could ever want, and yet, they aren't satisfying the one primary need, just their pressence. I hear God whisper to me all the time ... "just go BE with your daughter". I truly think kids just want you to BE, and they want to see your eyes sparkle when they walk into a room. Isn't this what the Lord does for us? Sure, He disciplines by gentle and sometimes not so gentle guiding, he calls us to obedience and teaches us right from wrong through His word. But, more than anything, He is just there. Always.
I'd love to go deeper with this ... like, OK parenting is an issue, but why? I will think on it for little while.
Another thing that Grant touched on in the last post was tolerance. I think this is part of the problem. Tolerance and Apathy go hand in hand and the kids have no expectations to strive toward. (we can argue to other side too, like too many expectations) But, because we are SO tolerant they can literally be anything they want, so what's the point? There is no standard of excellence in anything.
My two sense. I'd love to hear what you all think.
I have a lot of thoughts on this because a lot of my teaching experience was not very positive. Of course some of that had to do with me, and some of it with the kids.
To answer JTs post, I think high school education is different than college. It's not just about learning material from a book, but it's also like Paul said: to impact their moral standard. This is really the last place for kids to be impacted on that level before they face some of life's tougher challenges. I think the goal of high school education is twofold: 1) To teach them how to think, study skills, and educational preparation 2) To impact their lives personally and coach and model what it means to be a responsible citizen.
I agree with Crystal about the apathy and tolerance, but one thing I see is enablement. Some school administrations have allowed the idea of being "student-centered" to let the students control the school without any fear of real consequences. I also think parents contribute to this as well. Kids today seem to me to have this strange sense of entitlement which just puzzles me. Work ethic is truly slipping away as something that is encouraged among other things.
This has kind of been a ramble, but for us as a group, I think it's important to discuss. The other reason I wanted this question is because I wanted to get other people's perspective because it gives me insight as a parent.
Peace.
Great posts. Thank you for contributing in such a helpful way. I love the different perspectives offered.
About 30 years ago, I went to several of the Ranger's games with my dad and my brother. We sat close many times because noone else was there. As a kid, I never understood why the big-leaguers could kick away the line of chalk that protected the plate and gave the ump a clear vision of the strikezone. It became more confusing when I tried to do this in little league, although I really didn't know why I was doing it other than imitating my role models, and the ump yelled at me, warning me not to do it again. Things became clearer to me as I matured and learned that the batter was trying to gain an advantage by blurring the line and crowding the plate. I also learned it pissed off pitchers. I wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed, but I soon figured out that pitchers threw what they call "chin music" to brush the batter back. This served as a warning with the clear statement that if this crowding continued then the next ball they saw would be the one traveling with maximum velocity towards their ole melon. Bye bye birdie, good night Charlie, whatever! Dunsky for the night! If for some reason the ball missed that was intended to remind them of the rules they were breaking in the first place, then they would charge the mound and all hell would break loose and a bunch of men in tights are fighting in front of the world because someone was allowed to blur the lines to gain advantage.
Don't we, as adults and parents, blur the lines with shady business dealings, strong language, cheating on taxes, accumulating debt, and many more dangerous smaller infractions such as "oh that's ok noone saw, it won't hurt anyone this time, let's just hurry and go." There are so many times we all compromise and kick the line of chalk out of the way right in front of our kids. Then they see us explode with anger or retaliation when someone has the balls to throw some chin music our direction. That's why it's so hard to hold each other accountable. Noone wants to deal with their friends charging the mound. So we allow each other to continue to blur the lines and then we wonder what's wrong with our kids. Aren't they just imitating their role models? Reminds me of the story about a kid who got in trouble at school for stealing paper and pencils. When his dad was informed he was enraged and fervently spouted at the principal I can't believe he would steal, he knows I can get all the paper and pencils he needs from my work!" And we wonder...
I often hear people say "You have to pick your battles" and I understand what that meant originally, but I think it has become another blurring. Choosing your battles doesn't give us, as parents, teachers, and role models, the excuse to do nothing. Too many people just let things slide(no pun intended, well maybe) so they don't have to deal with it. You think God ever says, "Nah, not today, I'll let that go, noone saw. No harm, no foul." Everything we do we are accountable for. Until we deal with our laziness as parents, teachers, and role models our kids will only imitate. They are our responsibility and I'm privileged to be on the front lines everyday. They are OURS! We have to be there and nurture and sacrifice, sacrifice, and then sacrifice some more. That means our "personal time," our hobbies, our time with friends and the latest shirt or shoes that we just love. Obviously, I'm speaking to myself, but hopefully some of you get it. If I ever accept that it's not my responsibility, then someone besides me will suffer, most likely those I'm closest to. I think God said to make the most of EVERY opportunity.
For the three people that read this, I lost a few thoughts along the way.
In respect to Glenn Beck: I would suggest we play by the rules and not only when it benefits us. By that I mean, when Sydney was young and losing a game she would change the rules when she was losing. As a parent I thought it was cute and I allowed her to. Kinda like the Democratic primary that Hillary wants to change after two states knowingly broke the rules. Noone thought it would matter much, but we are in a freakish type race in the Dem primary. What message do we send if there are no consequences for breaking the rules? And why should we ever expect our kids to follow the rules, accept them, and not try to manipulate them to their advantage when the a person running for president is doing just that? Someone like Howard Dean needs to throw a fastball in her ear. And you can bet if he does, the Clintons will charge the mound and all kinds of people will start fighting.
I'm sorry guys. I have so much more to say with this analogy, but I'm sure you can do with it better than me.
Hey guys ive been reading everyones comments on this post and ive read some great stuff. It seems what it comes down to is a number of issues (parents, administration, teachers, etc.) I've often wondered why it is kids seem to have this sense of entightlement. Maybe i see this the most because i am a substitute and the kids are usually on their worst behavior whenever i see them. I can see all the previously mentioned reasons playing factors in this. First off the parents, ive listened to kids talk sometimes about manipulating their parents and their parents just letting them get away with it if they are nice. They end up just thinking that they should get whatever they want as long as they are nice and polite.
There are soo many more things about parenting that i see but just dont want to go into right now because well im not a parent, but i think paul said it best that these kids look up to their parents or at least they did and the parents have to constantly be on the guard of setting the right example for these kids. In regards to administration i can totally see what your saying mike, i have kids come in all the time with refferrals from teachers only to say that they were able to talk to their way down to just a detention and that they probably wont even have to serve that. There are just so many kids in the system right now its got to be near impossible to keep track of everyone so kids are able just to slip by sometimes. I mean these teachers really end up losing alot of their authority and that can really make things bad for the learning process.
I dont even really know what im saying now i just wanted to express how i feel about the whole situation. Teachers like paul was saying usually end up with a student after everyone else in the students life has dissapointed or set a bad example for, so it definetly is a sacrifice. Someone has to draw the line in the sand and call these kids out, oh well i gotta go just wanted to let you know what was on my jumbled mine, Peace!
I read this blog by a coach and thought it might be exactly what we are looking for. Very interesting.
"Many schools in our state actually created a task force that focused on getting better self-esteem training for kids in schools. So began the "everyone's a winner" situation that we all dread. Kids would do awful in certain situations and constantly be told that they were doing fine. I find this constantly at the high school level, and it isn't all the parents fault.
How can kids get all the way to me (Senior year) and still not understand that doing the work isn't enough? "What do you mean I got an 'F'? I did all the work!" Yeah, but you did it wrong. Then I get the call from the parents talking about flexibility, a call that I had more this year than any other. One parent told me "You have a reputation of being inflexible." ... What I find is that parents don't like that I don't accept the same crap they accept, and I feel that self-esteem is built when a student actually accomplishes something. That means that an "A" student needs to do excellent work, or it isn't an "A". ...
Like it or not, this generation is the most entitled ever in the United States. Kids have more independence, more money, and more control over their environment than ever. They are also more intelligent than ever, which we often confuse with wisdom. They have the brain to make great choices, we are just giving them too many outs when it comes time to use it."
This is palzo again.
I have to say when I was a young lad and got kicked out of my preschool for fighting, stealing, and other misfit deeds my parents sought counsel. They were given the best advice that changed the course of my life forever(well, until high school). The lady told my mom not to always let me win. My parents played with me alot and like most parents always let me win. I didn't know how to lose and expected every game to be easy victory. I'm told it turned me into the lovable get along with everyone type of guy I am today. Again, for the three of you reading I joke, but make a serious point. Everyone can't win all the time and evryone can't be special. Like Dash from the Incredibles said something like if everyone's special, then noone is. The Lord's special is different than the world's special and I think sometimes we try to mix the two and it confuses kids and us.
I read this blog by a coach and thought it might be exactly what we are looking for. Very interesting.
"Many schools in our state actually created a task force that focused on getting better self-esteem training for kids in schools. So began the "everyone's a winner" situation that we all dread. Kids would do awful in certain situations and constantly be told that they were doing fine. I find this constantly at the high school level, and it isn't all the parents fault.
How can kids get all the way to me (Senior year) and still not understand that doing the work isn't enough? "What do you mean I got an 'F'? I did all the work!" Yeah, but you did it wrong. Then I get the call from the parents talking about flexibility, a call that I had more this year than any other. One parent told me "You have a reputation of being inflexible." ... What I find is that parents don't like that I don't accept the same crap they accept, and I feel that self-esteem is built when a student actually accomplishes something. That means that an "A" student needs to do excellent work, or it isn't an "A". ...
Like it or not, this generation is the most entitled ever in the United States. Kids have more independence, more money, and more control over their environment than ever. They are also more intelligent than ever, which we often confuse with wisdom. They have the brain to make great choices, we are just giving them too many outs when it comes time to use it."
This is palzo again.
I have to say when I was a young lad and got kicked out of my preschool for fighting, stealing, and other misfit deeds my parents sought counsel. They were given the best advice that changed the course of my life forever(well, until high school). The lady told my mom not to always let me win. My parents played with me alot and like most parents always let me win. I didn't know how to lose and expected every game to be easy victory. I'm told it turned me into the lovable get along with everyone type of guy I am today. Again, for the three of you reading I joke, but make a serious point. Everyone can't win all the time and evryone can't be special. Like Dash from the Incredibles said something like if everyone's special, then noone is. The Lord's special is different than the world's special and I think sometimes we try to mix the two and it confuses kids and us.
I love the comments Paul! I just wanted to drop in and say that Mike and I have been out of town and will only be home for a few days before we head out again. I will return to blog land when we come back after Easter!
“I think the goal of high school education is twofold: 1) To teach them how to think, study skills, and educational preparation 2) To impact their lives personally and coach and model what it means to be a responsible citizen.”
- Mike D
I think these are great goals! I also ascribe to these as goal of mine, as a teacher. These are also goals that don’t always take root in the sight of the sower. The greatest teacher, Palzo of course, didn’t truly impact me until 2-3 years later. I remembered a lot of what he taught me in school my senior year but it didn’t really come to bear until years later. I think that is one of the hardest things about being a teacher. Who really knows if the hard work paid off? Did they get it years later? Did they forget everything the moment they graduated? Did I really give it everything? What could I have done differently? What if? What if? What if? This is only my 3rd year of teaching so I’m still very new to the profession. But, as a Christian man, trying to display through my job the Glory of Christ…it is freakin hard! Everything we do is going against the grain of the world and the teenage mind. We are truly trying the impossible. The truth is…I may teach them everything they need to know and the how…but if they never get the WHY, Christ, then who really freakin cares. Great I produced a bunch of thinkers, who know how to study, who are prepared for advanced educational pursuits, and who are responsible citizens…I just equipped them with many tools to labor in circles, in vain. I can fulfill all the goals of an educator and still lose! There is much wrong with the way kids are raised today, or I guess how they are raising themselves to be correct. But there is more wrong with the amount of time I truly labor in prayer for their souls. I’m not sure they are really that bad…I just get farther and farther removed and forget. This blog is mainly me just thinking out load and talking to myself…thanks for listening.
“This theme is powerfully illustrated in J.D. Salinger’s novel Franny and Zooey. Bessie has been badgering her son Zooey to get professional help for his sister Franny. Zooey gives careful thought to the matter. Finally he says, “For a psychoanalyst to be any good with Franny at all, he’d have to be a pretty peculiar type. I don’t know. He’d have to believe that it was through the grace of God that he’d been inspired to study psychoanalysis in the first place. He’d have to believe that it was through the grace of God that he wasn’t fun over by a …truck before he ever even got his license to practice. He’d have to believe that it’s through the grace of God that he has the native intelligence to help his…patients at all. I don’t know any good analysts who think along those lines. But that’s the only kind of psychoanalyst who might be able to do Franny any good at all.”
What could we do if we truly, I mean in our deepest being, knew that it is by grace we are called to teach? I’ve heard something to this effect said somewhere…non-believers can be just as good morally, at social action, they can be smarter, wealthier, more “successful”, more disciplined, better philanthropists, etc. But, the one thing they could never be…unconditionally grace extending. We are saved by grace alone…through a faith granted to us by a merciful God who owes us only His wrath. Kids lack discipline…so do I. Kids lack motivation…so do I. Kid’s take my time and energy for granted…I take God’s time and energy for granted. Kids seem to be me in the bigger picture…I pray God would grant me the grace to live out of a being who’s heart breaks for those who are lost and dying…cause I see me in them. I was the kid who only cared about me and my glory. I was the kid who thought people were there to pat me on the back and be used by me for my pleasure. One teacher loved me despite really even knowing me…he meet with me a few years after I graduated to answer questions I had…even though we were not that close when I was there…he was just my teacher! God is God and if I just love unconditionally and am open to share the Good News then I have to trust God will use me. That is the truth that I have experienced. May be it isn’t the kids…but it is that I don’t live from the faith that I verbally ascribe to.
i have worked in three school districts over the last 5 years. i have never been in a place where poverty abounded, but have taught in HEB, a school with a great mix from low to high, then @ carroll where there was 98% upper class, then to keller where most revolve around the upper middle class. in teaching in these different social backgrounds i have noticed a few distinct differences in the classes: first off, i experienced an upper class that has a sense of entitlement that cannot be explained on paper... you just have to see it. i have experienced lower class that has that same entitlement only with different agendas. i have seen intelligence as a whole be different depending on the amount of money ones parents possess, leisure time spent in different ways, and laziness manifest itself no matter what kind of background. some classes are tougher mentally than others, some are stronger and look "prettier" by the worlds standards, some have more success athletically, some overachieve, and some have more parent involvement.
but none of that answers the question of what is wrong with our kids today... to me, no matter if it is apartment kids from the other side of the tracks, middle class kids from suburbia USA, or the upper class kids from million dollar homes, it all comes down to accountability... Americans today (both children and their parents) will not accept the responsibility and ownership for their actions. From looking the other way, to the attitude of "if it doesn't affect me then its no big deal", it all is the same; we don't take ownership for our actions.
now i would love to follow that up with some great spiritual analogy, but i cannot. of course Christ is needed in our schools, in our society, but the fact remains that God will not call everybody and no matter where you reside, there will be multitudes around you who will never follow the narrow path of our Savior. But if you are wondering why kids can't think on their own, why they can't research, study, or work hard, then i think the answer can be found with a simple word: accountability... when it comes down to it, everyone knows, no matter adult or teenager, that when push comes to shove, there is usually a way out if you try hard enough. thats scary... very scary.
a few weeks ago i posed the question in all my classes of which is more important, loyalty to your friends or standing up for what is right... this was brought about from the roger clemens and andy pettite hearings on TV. pettite would not lie for his friend, but stood up and confessed that he had used steroids. when i asked what each kid would do if faced with the similiar circumstance, the responses floored me... i didn't get kids standing for loyalty or morality like i expected; instead i had kids not being able to comprehend making a choice that either way would have consequences. i had kids not being able to make a decision, and scariest of all, i had multiple kids tell me they would just call their moms to get them out of it...
so i will leave the answers to you guys who have families, my fellow teachers, and parents. there is no 5 step answer guide to this question... but in my opinion, when asked what is wrong with education, with america, and with our kids today, i will point to our skewed views on accountability from the very top all the way down to me, the little people.
Wow! Matt you're a stud! I think that was a really great answer...
I love responses that really make me think and evaluate myself and all that I could improve. Both you guys gave very stimulating and thought provoking answers to a very difficult question. Thank you for your time.
I would love to hear from others.
JT and Matt are studs. That's all I have time to say for now. Wow.
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