This video is new and not 7 years old and I believe this is very serious and should be treated accordingly. What do you have to say about Oprah and her version of God? If you can defend this at all then you're missing the boat! What say you?
http://www.carringtonsteele.citymax.com/page/page/5776487.htm
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17 comments:
Firstly, thank you, Paul, for bringing this up!
Ugghh! I watched this video yesterday and have been so frustrated by it. I keep thinking about it, and it's driving me crazy!
Interestingly, I have sat through quite a few Christian women's ministry meetings where one person will say to the effect, "Well the other day on Oprah...not that I like her anything..." Ok..that drives me crazy. That sounds so judgmental, smug, and self-righteous. It's such a disclaimer for, otherwise, "good, Christian behavior."
The deal is that I actually like Oprah. She's got a fun personality; she's a great dresser; she always educates the public on good finds; she can get deep; she gives generously. I like her just because she is the woman God created.
Right now, though, I am so mad. I'm mad, because there's deception going on here on so many levels. She is being deceived..by herself, her new friend, and really the enemy. And in turn, she is deceiving the public, her following--many of whom think they are "good, Christian women." (And men, too.) Too many of us have been satisfied with swimming in the shallow waters of our own faith..and will fall into this teaching. Why have we allowed one person to have such influence in our lives?
Oprah says she's taking God out of the box, when all she did was repackage Him in the wrapping of her own choosing for the time being. She rewrapped her version of God. She said the turning point was when while sitting in a charismatic church service, the pastor said that God is a jealous God. She could not accept that thought and began the journey of finding God. I find it so strange that she could not accept the fact that she really cannot attempt to understand God (Elohim, El Shaddai, El Elyon, Jehovah Nissi, Alpha and Omega, etc..) and what it means for Him to be jealous, so she decided to take God out of the box? All she was doing was acting out of stubborn pride and putting Him back in the box. Why would she think she should be able to wrap her mind around Him? He's God! His ways are higher; His thoughts are higher. He is emotional, and so are we, for we were created in His image...very good. God, Yahweh, referred to Himself as jealous. The Hebrew word He used to describe Himself was "quanna," which means His focus on a desire for an exclusive relationship with us. Jealousy is an emotion; it in itself is not bad. It is simply means you are stirred by the desire to have what is rightfully your own. He made us..He purposed us to love us. Does that sound like a bad or troubling thing to you? I don't have to wrap my mind around that one to know I got a good deal, but it only comes through the lifting of the veil through the blood of Jesus Christ to be able to see Who He is, piece by piece, as much as He allows. God is real; He is I Am, and He is good.
He, too, is so much bigger than all of this; He is way bigger than Oprah, and most assuredly bigger than me. But, I'm so blessed that He deposited Himself into me and sealed up my heart. And guess what? I'm still mad, but really, really mad at the ruler of this world, Satan. He tries and tries to twist and counterfeit the Word of God and the victory accomplished through Christ. We have to guard our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus, and we have to put on the full armor of God (intentionally, all the time), stand firm and fight. In the meantime, we have to love...not false beliefs or notions or sin..but the person God created, the life for whom Christ died, including Oprah. Not a fluffy, we are all ok kind of love, but real love that tells the truth. She needs Jesus, and so does anyone who would allow her to infiltrate their thinking in this way. May our hearts be wide open, tested, and retested before God, in Christ Jesus through the power of the Holy Spirit.
Geez! How do you add to that? That was amazingly articulated and I appreciate most your strength coupled with tact that I, personally, have such a difficult time executing.
Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
Great comments Jennifer. Oh by the way I am a friend of Paul's and of Grant's wife Jennifer...and well you too Grant.) The topic of Oprah fires me up so I decided to take the plunge and comment, even if I am a bit intimidated. Eph 4:14 has always been the verse I think of when I think of the Oprah's of the world. Oprah has been blown "here and there by every wind of teaching" for the past 25 years. I am sad and angry all at the same time. Sad for her that she has fallen prey to the deception of the enemy. She has heard the truth in her younger years and has been deceived enough to throw the truths of God by the wayside and believe all of this new age crap. Not only is she heading down a road of distruction but she is leading millions of others down the same path. When I watched the video I thought of my unbelieving family who watches her on a daily basis. She spews lies in a way that makes them sound so appealing to the masses...tickling their ears with what makes them feel all warm and cozy inside. It sickens me to no end. But here is what I cling to...I serve a God that is more powerful than Oprah Winfrey, one that is sovereign and hears my prayers. So I pray, I pray for those that are hearing the lies she believes to be truth and for her. Yes, even Oprah. She is like any other human being who has gone astray or never believed in the 1st place and needs our prayers. Do we tolerate and agree with the deceit she spews over the airways, NO!, but we love and pray because that is what our Savior has called us to do.
Oh. I forgot to reference the verse Eph 4:14
You are so right, Karla. I was just changing Colby's sheets (My son Colby is sick, and I had to change his sheets, and it seems that when I'm just doing things like that one thought leads to the next and hopefully my thoughts are in the right place), and, anyway, I was thinking about Oprah's church background and turning point and all. So, I'm thinking if she's a journalist why did she not explore the whole truth? She went searching but never looked for the real Jesus within the authority of His Word.
I think that many people these days are not being discipled. People are being hand-fed and don't even know how to open up their Bibles. If they do, they get overwhelmed and bored, never knowing that if they are truly in Christ, they have the power and leadership of the Holy Spirit there to guide and teach them the Truth. The church today seems to be about making it easier for everyone...but was it ever easy for the original disciples? Hardly. They were tested, tried and proven...sometimes through failure and sometimes through victory--but always found to be in Christ Jesus. They knew Jesus! Too easily, we take man at his word, never knowing what God's Word says on an issue.
You did it, Karla! Great post. Jennifer, I'm a huge fan and if you you had your own talk show I'd watch.
You bring up a great point about the church making it too easy on everyone. We baby our kids, which they need to a point and we baby new Christians, which they need to a point. There must come a time in the church with maturing Christians and with our kids that we force them to build some spiritual muscle. I plan on discussing this more thoroughly tomrrow when I have time to write. You guys feel free to share your opinions concerning this problem if you see it as such.
Who is taking responsibility for our leaders? There are too many pats on the backs of those that seem to get it. Not only do we baby the new Christians, we ignore or assume the leaders are doing just fine. People struggle! Always have and always will. We need more discipling of those strong men and women who are supposed to be discipling others.
Truly tough questions rarely rise or find themselves appropriately confronting. Maybe we are having greater difficulty loving one another to the levels it takes to disciple because we e-mail, text message, or call on the phone which replaces our face to face intimate interactions. We are all so busy and the Kingdom suffers from our cultural demons that deceive us into believing we have to always keep up. I mean what would happen if we all slowed down, prioritized, cut out some activities(even if they are good)and spent more quality time with our kids, friends and those who don't know Jesus? All sounds good, but I doubt anyone will run to the daytimer and begin marking through the next to-do.
Any help or insight concerning any of this would be appreciated.
Paul, it sounds like you and Oswald are on the same page. In "Devotions for a Deeper Life" by Chambers (April 11), he wrote in regard to praying for our spiritual leaders:
"When the ultimate truth is told, we may find to our horror that, though we have enjoyed and listened to men and women of God as they have blessed our lives, we have been spiritually selfish. We have allowed ourselves to think that, because we have been blessed by their ministry, we would be presumptuous to pray for them. This is a snare of Satan."
I felt so convicted. You are right, people struggle--at all levels. I'm kind of going back and forth with this, because the stronger you are in Christ--the more of a threat you are to the enemy. The stronger you are in Christ, though, the more you recognize and become sensitized to his strategies; you recognize your weakness and know only that you know you need a Savior, Who is your only strength, providing His holy armor for the fight. But, even in that, you learn how very vulnerable you can be, for you "say you stand, lest you fall."
So, certainly, Christian leaders need accountability, authentic companionship, encouragement and prayer. We were made for connection--communion with Christ and His church. But somewhere amidst is that place called "alone." Beth Moore calls it the place of "further still," and Richard Foster calls it "the dark night of the soul." It's that place called into being, destined by God that you enter into all by yourself. He is there, but you wonder, and wrestle, and at some point you just embrace Him in the aloneness. I think this place is essential for ambassadors of Jesus Christ. The comforts and familiarities of man--though in themselves can be good and beneficial--are left behind. It's just you and the King of Kings, but you only know that when He turns on the lights....and then you can walk back out into the world with His radiance about you. And then, you come to appreciate the support of your brothers and sisters in Christ..but you know if all that ceased from happening..it's only Him, and He's more than enough.
Even with that said, in this day and age, I agree, there's a deep longing for connection. We are just too busy with good things--and not necessarily the best things. In considering spiritual disciplines, I believe that intentional, real, personal connection would be one in this modern day that would need to move up the list. And, we may have alot of interaction, as you mentioned, Paul, through email, texting, running here and there...but we may never be engaging in the authentic fellowship for which we were created. It has to be deliberate.
On that note, (Man, I'm long-winded lately!), a couple of old friends, a couple of new friends, and myself just started meeting in between school pick-ups just to ask each other questions on a deeper, Christ-centered level. After just one meeting, I felt so full and so challenged, and I'm longing for more. All week, I have been stirred to pray for them each in specific ways. Why do we so often settle for less?
Ok...enough of me...where is everybody?
I've read through your last post several times because it's exactly what I needed to hear. I loved the Chambers quote. So often I only pray for those that are bleeding and easily forget about those that I have confidence in their walk.
I'm just in one of those places spiritually where I'm trying too hard to accomplish, but need to sit, be still, and and be in God's holy presence. Simply, I need to obey! I need the tough questions, but more than the tough questions I need some quality time listening in silence for the Lord's counseling voice. And when He speaks I need to immediately respond and not justify away why I shouldn't. It seems so elementary to still struggle with this. Sin just destroys and kills that momentum that being fired up for God brings.
I appreciate your words and encouragement, Jennifer. It was your time alone with the Lord that shined through and witnessed to me in this forum. Again, thank you.
Burke wanted to discuss women's roles in the church so I wanted to throw it out there so more people will join in the dialogue. If anyone else wants to bring a question or desires some input on a particular topic, let me know. I look forward to hearing from you guys.
Ok, I'm kind of going off track here, but I wanted to touch on our society's obsession with texting, emailing, Facebooking etc...instead of authentically engaging with someone face to face. Does that bother anyone else as much as it does me? I usually boil everything down to the fact that people/most people are motivated out of fear. Fear to share their heart and their story with someone because they might be rejected or fully known. So they hide behind a computer or phone and forgo the opportunity to really engage and love someone.
On the idea of discipleship...Being the disciple and the discipler (Ya, I made that word up) takes courage, vulnerability, time, patience, effort, commitment, the love of Christ, discipline, obedience and the willingness to receive and give some hard truths and admonishments. I can better share my heart about this by telling you how God has shown His most amazing love to me. (one of the many)
I have been so blessed to have a mentor in my life who disciples me in a way that Paul, the apostle, discipled Timothy. 3 years ago my life became a train wreck. Enter an amazing real authentic women of God, Shelly Davis. She is the minister to women at Christ Chapel and a woman whose time is sought after by so many. Over the past 3 years she has spent weekly face to face time with me, prayed with me and for me, confronted me on many occasions, taught me that God's word is active and alive, not only encouraged me spiritually, but got down and stayed in the trenches with me even when I became incredibly frustrating, re-parented me in many areas, mothered me, fed me, included me in her family and unselfishly loved me. Our Savior is so loving, gracious and kind he showed me His unconditional love through this amazing women. It's Titus 2:3,4 at its best. How God orchestrates our lives just simply blows me away. I've learned a simple, but foundational truth over the past 3 years, God is good! (I'M NOT SURE IF ANY OF THAT RELATED TO PAUL'S ORIGINAL QUESTION, BUT I WENT WITH IT ANYWAY)
Honestly, after reading Paul's and Jennifer's posts I was really intimidated to post again, but ya know I thought, "here I am talking about being real and authentic, yet I'm fearful to comment because I might look unintelligent", what is THAT all about!? But God said these are fellow brothers and sisters be yourself and share your heart...so I did.
My thoughts for a Friday night...
Beautifully said, Karla.
I loved your Friday night thoughts, Karla! Sounds like God is raising up another Titus woman in you!!
I love the way He works--and I agree, He is so good! My story is a lot like yours; He pursued me by strategically placing individuals in my life who were walking out a genuine faith/love relationship with Him. They held my hand and took me to the real Jesus--and there I had my own encounter with Him. Now, I want to be a Shelly Davis and a Karla--encouraging other women to know Him more, showing His love to others through the work He's done in my life. To be honest, I just have to be Jennifer Maddox--who God created me to be. I have wrestled deep into the night with the Lord over that more often than I'd like to admit. I have heard Him call me to do certain things that I am very stretched in faith and convenience in doing. I whine to Him about not being organized or articulate enough like so and so, or outgoing and energized enough like so and so...and His response to me is.."Of course you are not, but I already have a so and so...and I just want you to be you trusting Me." And I am reminded that in Romans 4 that He calls things that are not as though they were, which is so His ministry, not mine.
And in that, to touch a bit on--not even knowing the circumstances--what Paul said, my heart has to stay intimately connected to His, and there are not substitutes. He so often gently reminds me that no work for Him, no conversation about Him, no Bible study preparation or memorization, good Christian book, no pastor or preacher, no favorite praise song, etc., can substitute for my intimately engaging heart to heart with Him. All of these things can be wonderful tools to draw me closer and encourage me to come near to Him...but I have to open wide my heart to Him. I have to lift up my voice to Him in praise, thanksgiving, confession, concerns, needs, wants, dreams, gifts, frustrations, embarrassments, confusions, questions, etc...and I have to just hush up and listen to Him. Sometimes just like emailing and textmessaging, as useful as they can be...I try to do that with God...just short little to-the-point blips. Really, I'm glad we have that access; we need to be doing that throughout the day, but really, it's just not enough. We will become tired and frustrated, longing for more and wondering why it's not working for us. That can happen in my earthly relationships and certainly in my relationship with Him. And, then, we just have to fall on our knees in despair, in forgiveness..totally needing His touch. So amazingly, He is there, so patient, so kind, in such authority, so real. I know this from repeated experience..and it looks the same and different every time, if that makes sense. Every time I just want to smack myself...I'm so embarrassed; He's so much kinder than I am, though.
Ok, I get on here and go to town, trying to avoid homework and housework, I guess in some ways, but I also love the genuine exposure and the spurring on in Christ Jesus. I, too, would love to discuss women's roles in the church. Should we do that here, or, Paul, do you want to establish another post? I also heard a crazy quote on the radio regarding assumptions made about boy/girl sexuality in light of the upcoming prom season that I'd love to discuss, too, at some point.
But for now, once again, enough of me! Wow..so sorry!
Jennifer you are awesome! Your insight and pure honesty is so drawing.
I reread your posts this morning and was motivated by both you ladies. I saw Jesus and heard Jesus in your words and my Spirit was moved by your obedience to shine of Him. This morning I just got it! My day started early and my intimate time with the Lord was really special, much needed and well overdue. I have alot to share and want to begin a new post tomorrow, but wanted to thank you for taking the time to write and inspire. I know I wasn't the only one to benefit. Thank you again and I look forward to sharing some revelations and beginning a new post that I hope will really open it up for everyone.
I hate that I dont have time right now at all, but I WILL post later on this especially since I was the one in the middle of the debate on Oprah last time. I have so many emotions and I haven't even watched this yet. I tivo her and watch her religiously and just have been so busy. But, even without seeing it or reading comments already posted I just want you all to know that I am reading that book (A new earth) that she is freaking promoting like the second coming and have been pretty pissed off for a while about her. I just want to quickly say that I am so thankful that I have friends that get it and that God gave us the Holy spirit to guide us all. This is what community and fellowship is all about. Wolf in sheeps clothing ... man, isn't our Lord so freaking WISE. Since a few months ago and our debate, the Lord has really taught me a lot through that and how we really have to be extra careful and on guard. I learned this the hard way. I briefly read what Jennifer posted and I am pumped to read it all and respond. I feel so similar. I love Oprah, honestly. I read her biography at age 10. She has been through so much and I wholehearedly believed she loved and followed Jesus. Anyway, Mike and I are experiencing other people we have known that "said" they loved and followed Jesus, were believers, Christians ... whatever that have know denounced their faith or are in a season of doubt, again, whatever. All I know is if you or anyone out there has met the same Jesus I know, you ARE changed forever. period. end of story. I am not going to dilute his power by saying "oh, season of doubt" whatever! I have to question ... do you know Him, did you EVER know Him! Because if you did, you will spend your entire life seeking to get more of Him. He's too irresistable. Not to mention, He wont ever let you go!
Well ive really enjoyed reading everyones comments. Its been really beneficial just reading so thanks for all of your thoughts. I dont really have much to add to this topic just wanted to say thanks for making it do what it do! Oh and crystal yeah once your a christian your always a christian. Though I had this argument with my mom the other day. She said a friend of her's gave his life to christ and believed in him when he was younger, but now he is an atheist. So I believe the bible said that he never truly believed or gave his life to christ. I know there are times were we might not be sure about non-salvation things but you have to be in line with what the bible teaches about salvation. Interesting topic none the less.
Wow! Great to hear again fom you, Crystal. You always add something good to the mix. And Brent, thank you for your constant encouragement. The new post tonight should help people get involved.
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