I created this blog so friends could discuss real issues and keep in touch.
I in no way want it to detract from us meeting face to face, but instead hope to create a buzz so that we would desire to meet more often.
The first topic was the validity of Joel Osteen and his minisrty. It started in an e-mail and is now going to responded to in this blog.
As previosly stated, I would love to get your opinions on the recent interview with Mike Wallace.
http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player06.html?122307/122307_fns_osteen&FNS&Joel%20Osteen%20on%20%27FOX%20News%20Sunday%27&acc&US&-1&News&829&&&exp
I'm callin him out, along with all who want to say he's doing some good or reaching another audience or whatever else people say to justify his false and puddin-pop teachings!
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11 comments:
Okay first off i think this is going to be the best blog ever! Now to Joel, i watched the videos you put up paul and i found a couple of my own here they are http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfwYU2pmWYQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMwW6Q1JfAA&feature=related
Anyways when i watched the first video where he is preaching at his church i was somewhat skeptical about what to think. I mean i really wanted to give the guy a chance that maybe he's taken out of context. Maybe all we see are the sermons where he talks about the love of God and we miss the ones where he talks about the depravity of mankind. However after looking at all these videos I think Joel is either really immature in his faith or is blatanly deceiving people.
He just seems like he is too afraid to be offensive and its almost like he believes the gospel is right for him but he couldnt judge people that didnt believe that. Almost like his beliefs are subjective and not absolute. When larry king asked him if a jew could go to heaven without believing in Jesus, Osteen looked nervous like he was embarrased he had to say yes so he just said its not up to him to say. Well this was a long blog and i have so much more to say but i will stop for now.
I have always been hesitant to put too many thoughs on paper/email etc for fear that my lack of writing abilities will cloud what I am trying to say...
However, like so many others, i feel this will be a great outlet to spawn further face to face conversations...
In my opinion, Joel Osteen is an easy one. You don't have to be a biblical scholar to see quickly that his teachings do not line up with the Word. When a "preacher" admits that he neither teaches from the bible nor even has one in the pulpit, i would think it would raise red flags to everybody who hears that. If you want to speak in front of millions, if you want to speak "positive" messages or help people (like his book is entitled, "Becoming a better you") then fine. But lets not put his teachings in with religion, christianity, or God. Lets call him what he is... a heretical Oprah or Dr Phil.
First off, I am pumped about this blog ... OK, I have lots of thoughts, but here are a few. I agree with Brent and Matt about who Joel Osteen is (not much more than a motivational speaker). But, what I am interested in is the so what? This is why I think this question is important, and why there are millions of people listening in to his sermon each week.
After listening to a few of his sermons it is so wonder why people are drawn to him. He gives the "feel good" message that many people want. They go to listen to his sermon every week after enduring their tough life and they get filled temporarily. His message would make anyone feel like they can conquer the world and give those people that boost they need to endure the next week only to start the cycle over again. The problem is what we already know, his message won't last. These people are drinking Joel Osteen water, not the living water we know will quench our thirst for eternity. We dont want to hear about our 'depravity' as Brent mentioned, but we all know this is essential to following Jesus. It is interesting that what we think we "want" or "need" isn't necessarily what is best. Hello, how many times has God revealed this to you all ... but then again, maybe I am the ignoramous that needs the same freaking lesson over and over.
I have to also agree with Brent's first assesment that I beleive that Osteen is simply immature in his faith. I do not get that gut feeling like he is blatantly misleading people. With that said, it is not my purpose or position to decide Osteen's intentions, but it is our duty to call him what he is and figure out why this is dangerous.
My first thought about the danger is spawning off of what Matt said about Osteen's teaching basically hiding under the veneer of following Jesus. This is dangerous because people are under the illusion that they are drinking from the well of living water, and they aren't. So, when things go wrong, they will wonder where the heck Jesus is or this lollipop God that is skipping through the wheat field with them. Another thought I had about the enormity of the danger is from this new wave of "you can do anything you want in life" attitude. I must first admit that I was one that got sucked a little bit into the "secret" teachings. This is the same thing. When you finish watching "the secret" or finish listening to a Joel Osteen sermon, you leave thinking you can do anything, you can feel happy and be victorious in life. This issue is that in the absense of Jesus, we can't do crap! The reason this false teaching is so dangerous is not only the obvious in that it dilutes Jesus to a mere pen pal, but it exhaults ourself as being rulers of our own life. We leave thinking we can do anything and when we inevitably screw up/fail/miss the mark, whatever you want to call it, we feel defeated and like a failure and wonder where in the heck this feel good God is.
Dangit!! I tried to post a comment a second ago..and lost it.
I pretty much said that I agree with all the posts. We actually had this discussion in one of my classes recently. It got pretty heated. I do think Joel's teachings and beliefs are shallow. To me, they aren't comforting but rather alarming. I don't listen to him and think I can do anything...I actually feel unprotected and naive. I think he's missed the great responsibility of sharing the whole Gospel message, which includes the fallenness of man and sin. That's the beauty of Christ's love, for He gave us His grace and power even while we were dead in sin. I wonder if Joel has even experienced true brokeness before Christ or authentic intimacy with Him, for to know Him is to love Him...and you just can't help but talk about Him and His Word, not fearing you will offend anyone. You know how much they need Him...not you and all the positive thinking...just Him. I feel sad for Joel, b/c he seems like a nice guy. I just can't pinpoint his deal..is he just immature in his faith, is he intentionally deceiving, or is he just a by-product of his past church experiences and people's expectations?
I don't know..but I do know that this is a hot topic. We, as believers in Christ, need to be grounded and rooted in His Word, and we need to speak the truth in love, even if it's the hard truth. They key word here is in "love." We are so prone to name calling and finger pointing. The world is watching; the enemy is lurking...what will we do? We need to allow the Lord to search our own hearts before we say one word about Joel. We need to abide in His love and be obedient to His Word. When we are immersed in Him, desiring only His glory, allowing His love to compel us, we can then make a move or speak that word...or else we are just clanging gongs.
Before I get started, let me say that I will probably not be the first one to respond to these issues. If you're looking to plunge into d/c, then I'm not your man because it takes me some time to process.
IMHO, it seems to me that churches have historically sought control. The Catholic Church did not distribute Bibles, but rather kept them in Latin so that they were the only ones who could read them. The church has evolved in some ways to what it is today, but it is very similar in the sense that it is about control and power. This in and of itself is a regression from what the church is supposed to be.
All that to say that there are a lot of churches out there that are telling people all of these different and creative ways that they can fit God into their lives in a 7-part series that you won't want to miss. It's a lure and it's easy and it feels good. However, it should be about how we can seek God and figure out how we fit into his plan. A great example is the verse that says God will give you the desires of your heart. The interpretation of that should be more like "if you seek God, he will change the desires of your heart to align with his desires for you."
It's a lot easier to do what Joel Osteen is doing because it does not step on anyone's toes. One of my major problems is that he does not use Scripture. God gave us two things here on earth: The Word and the Holy Spirit. He's not using one which makes me doubt he has the other.
"Love God, Love others. It's that easy."
I haven't read anything by Joel but from what Ive just listened to it, I agree with you guys that he is preaching the feel good message. He preaches that Jesus will bring you joy, peace, fulfillment etc. but makes no mention of sin and our need of redemption. He seems to not mention it for fear of making anyone feel uncomfortable. The problem I have with this is.. a gospel without acknowledgment of sin is not the gospel.
Basically what will happen (like what is happening in so many churches) is that after hearing the "feel good message" the nonbelievers will try out Jesus for awhile to see if what he says is true. After they do not experience this "better life" they will fall away (never having been saved in the first place) and more than likely become bitter for having ever been promised such things.
This is a dangerous teaching and I feel like so many are hearing it today. In order to understand grace, we've got to preach the severity of sin.
You guys should check out this sermon by Ray Comfort called "Hells best kept secret." Its about the importance of preaching sin. You can listen or watch the video...he's awesome!
http://www.livingwaters.com/learn/hellsbestkeptsecret.htm
"There are many pleas made these days for 'tolerance.' But often 'tolerance' is not the right word for that which is demanded. What is meant is 'compromise.' Tolerance and compromise are not the same thing. This is tolerance -- to grant to another the same rights which I claim for myself. This is compromise (Joel) -- to sacrifice heart-felt conviction in order that someone else may be pleased or in order to avoid a breach of peace."
To compromise with wrong in the name of tolerance is to dishonor God and His Word.
I thought this to be appropriate concerning our context.
By the way, please vote in our poll about "What topic most interest you?"
It's in the top right hand corner on our home page.
I have heard about Joel before and watched his videos that Pal linked, and he is interesting. Palzo I wish I could give you a debate but I can't on this one. I think his message of prosperity is dangerous to a society that always looks for the easy way out. There are so many get rich quick schemes that sucker the average person in on a daily basis, and his message has that potential by throwing God into the mix. I don't think there is anything wrong with prosperity itself but I think preaching financial abundance and a happy go lucky life for God's people is missing the boat. I will say I think this guy is a freaking genius, he sells what people want to hear. It is not suprising that people follow his message, the masses have always been easy to lead. It has happened throughout history with leaders both good and bad and we are assured it will continue until the end of time.
i think his books should be under self-help not religious. just my thought for the day. weird side note jt and i went to corpus this week and when we got to our hotel room joel osteen was on larry king it was crazy. so we got to watch and disect the interview. anways just kind of cool timing with all the discussion about him
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